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Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tekken

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Katsuhiro Harada delivers his verdict on Smash Bros

Namco Bandai are currently working on Smash Bros Wii U with Masahiro Sakurai's team and in the build up to the launch of the Nuintendo's new console, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 producer Katsuhiro Harada has been talking up the hardcore credentials of Nintendo's fighting series.

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Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tekken

Postby K-tet » 15 Nov 2012, 10:54

Should Smash Bros be seen as a hardcore fighting game? It's one of those odd fallacies that people assume what is and what isn't hardcore. Let me throw Pokémon into the mix. Pokémon, for all intents and purposes, is deceiving at face value as it's such an in-depth game beneath the surface, that I'd say is more hardcore than most of the games out there today. Smash is no exception, it may appear fun at face value, but underneath the surface is a game that can be taken as seriously as any fraghead's preferred FPS.

Any game can appear to be casual, but be hardcore beneath the surface, therefore while the misconceived distinction between hardcore and casual will always remain among certain gamers and communities, just remember that any game when studied in-depth can be played at a hardcore level. "It doesn't need blood and gore to be hardcore." (TM)
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby shy guy 64 » 15 Nov 2012, 11:30

fair enough
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby MartinIsAwesome » 15 Nov 2012, 11:31

Very well said, K-tet. I'd also like to throw in the point that Smash Bros. unique system of building up damage and knocking your opponent out of the field helps to bring more diversity to the Fighting genre.
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby KairiZero » 15 Nov 2012, 13:25

Well said, I must agree. Many gamers do tend to take a first glance at a game and dismiss it as something which isn't deemed hardcore, which is ridiculous to base that opinion around the art style alone!! I had a furore on another "gaming" site with somebody slating Kid Icarus as a "pathetic kids game, too easy with no depth to it at all"

Easy if you play every stage on 1.0 perhaps......crank it up and it becomes fiendishly difficult!! I've struggled doing some of those stages on the 3-4 difficulty (maybe I'm just rubbish), I would consider it a hardcore game by any stretch of the imagination - and throwing the multiplayer in makes it a fantastic competitive game to play!

I really feel sorry for gamers who dismiss such wonderful gaming opportunities just because something isn't drenched in gore and the art style isn't to their liking......Can you call them real gamers?
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby thecoop » 15 Nov 2012, 13:43

I love Smash Bros., but the series so far is by no means a serious fighting game. For me, I think Virtua Fighter, Dead or Alive and Soul Caliber are the only series out there which can be considered serious, because there is a need for knowing your character inside out and knowing the timing and mechanics of the game. That is a serious fighting game. Yes Smash Bros can be hard, but that doesn't make it a serious game. Incidentally, I hate Tekken, it's far too clunky, so I hope those elements will not be integrated into the new Smash Bros game..
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby LavaTwilight » 15 Nov 2012, 15:01

KairiZero wrote:I really feel sorry for gamers who dismiss such wonderful gaming opportunities just because something isn't drenched in gore and the art style isn't to their liking......Can you call them real gamers?


No... no you cannot!
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby 3DSRulesO.K » 15 Nov 2012, 16:57

Was there ever any doubt that Smash Bros. is a serious fighting game?

Other than the fact that it has Mario and Pokemon in it, I can't think of any reasons that anyone who has ACTUALLY PLAYED IT would think it's not a serious fighter.
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby Argenthor » 15 Nov 2012, 18:25

K-tet wrote:Should Smash Bros be seen as a hardcore fighting game? It's one of those odd fallacies that people assume what is and what isn't hardcore. Let me throw Pokémon into the mix. Pokémon, for all intents and purposes, is deceiving at face value as it's such an in-depth game beneath the surface, that I'd say is more hardcore than most of the games out there today. Smash is no exception, it may appear fun at face value, but underneath the surface is a game that can be taken as seriously as any fraghead's preferred FPS.

Any game can appear to be casual, but be hardcore beneath the surface, therefore while the misconceived distinction between hardcore and casual will always remain among certain gamers and communities, just remember that any game when studied in-depth can be played at a hardcore level. "It doesn't need blood and gore to be hardcore." (TM)


I think here, it is the issue of whether smash bros is 'serious enough' to be played at a professional level. For it to be a serious fighter it needs to have more than just depth. One of the reasons that so many prefer melee over brawl is the issue of balance between characters and change like damage+timing. It's why games such asStarcraft II are constantly being updated with seemingly small changes to gameply!
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby goldtanooki » 15 Nov 2012, 20:51

KairiZero wrote:Well said, I must agree. Many gamers do tend to take a first glance at a game and dismiss it as something which isn't deemed hardcore, which is ridiculous to base that opinion around the art style alone!! I had a furore on another "gaming" site with somebody slating Kid Icarus as a "pathetic kids game, too easy with no depth to it at all"

Easy if you play every stage on 1.0 perhaps......crank it up and it becomes fiendishly difficult!! I've struggled doing some of those stages on the 3-4 difficulty (maybe I'm just rubbish), I would consider it a hardcore game by any stretch of the imagination - and throwing the multiplayer in makes it a fantastic competitive game to play!

I really feel sorry for gamers who dismiss such wonderful gaming opportunities just because something isn't drenched in gore and the art style isn't to their liking......Can you call them real gamers?

Finally! I've been looking for someone who knows the truth about games! I certainly can't call them real gamers! I showed a friend (an xboxer) kid icarus: uprising and i swear he said "Whoa..." in amazement, then dismissed it as "Kid's stuff"! I think he's just embarresd( i know, i can't spell :P)
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby KairiZero » 15 Nov 2012, 22:51

goldtanooki wrote:
KairiZero wrote:Well said, I must agree. Many gamers do tend to take a first glance at a game and dismiss it as something which isn't deemed hardcore, which is ridiculous to base that opinion around the art style alone!! I had a furore on another "gaming" site with somebody slating Kid Icarus as a "pathetic kids game, too easy with no depth to it at all"

Easy if you play every stage on 1.0 perhaps......crank it up and it becomes fiendishly difficult!! I've struggled doing some of those stages on the 3-4 difficulty (maybe I'm just rubbish), I would consider it a hardcore game by any stretch of the imagination - and throwing the multiplayer in makes it a fantastic competitive game to play!

I really feel sorry for gamers who dismiss such wonderful gaming opportunities just because something isn't drenched in gore and the art style isn't to their liking......Can you call them real gamers?

Finally! I've been looking for someone who knows the truth about games! I certainly can't call them real gamers! I showed a friend (an xboxer) kid icarus: uprising and i swear he said "Whoa..." in amazement, then dismissed it as "Kid's stuff"! I think he's just embarresd( i know, i can't spell :P)


Yeah, its a little stupid I must admit, I can't understand the logic in it. I find over the top gore fun for about....10 seconds, then the novelty wears off!
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby IPecksU » 16 Nov 2012, 00:43

Of course it can be considered hard core to some and at the same time a great fun easy to pick up fighting game to others. Depends on play style with smash brothers. That's why I think it's such a great series.
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby thecoop » 16 Nov 2012, 12:57

I thought we were talking about whether this is a serious fighting game or not - 'hardcore' (god i hate that word) is, to me, a different beast entirely. As an example, Mortal Kombat I would say is a hardcore game, but not necessarily a serious fighter as there isn't really that much depth to it. Tekken I would say similar as it's just about memorising fast input commands. A serious fighter is one that you can study a character and learn them, one in which to win against a skilled opponent you have to know every character - like Virtua Fighter (incidentally SEGA let's have number 6 and on WiiU, please - thanks :-) )
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby carnivine chaos » 17 Nov 2012, 03:34

As a competitive Brawl player and hardcore fan I'd say it's better than Melee and just as competitive (serious) just in a different way. In Melee it was all about Wavedashing, L-cancelling, combos, etc., I'm all up for combos, but in Melee it gets to the point where a single hit can lead to a 0 - death combo which is ridiculous. It's almost like CoD where it's pretty much first to shoot wins. Brawl does have mechanics like this, such as Glide-Tossing, Olimar's Whistle-guarding, etc., but you can't just rush in. You have to think tactically, getting in hits when it's most safe, staying away from your opponent to avoid damage, and there are still some 3-hit combos and the like. I do agree with the imbalanced-ness though; Metaknight is so OP, as is Diddy Kong and Falco compared to Ganondorf and Jigglypuff, etc. (I'm aware I'm writing etc. a lot). Long story short, Brawl is not Melee 2, both games are just as competitive as each other, imo, just different.

As mentioned earlier, Pokemon is "in-depth", true, what with all the EVs and IVs and prediction, but, no, Pokemon cannot be taken seriously and shouldn't be played competitively, why? It revolves too much around luck. Critical hits being the main problem. If you're playing with a parahax Jirachi, the entire match ultimately depends on whether you're lucky enough to make your opponent continuously miss a turn. It punishes skill; Good players will lose to bad players thanks to a random critical hit which prevents the good player from winning that match when otherwise they would have won. People say "luck is a part of any game" or "if you can't deal with it then you're a bad player", well, no, that's not true. Brawl isn't luck; it's tactical and requires skill and mind games, and how are you supposed to deal with critical hits if you don't know when they're going to happen? Competitive Pokemon is a joke and really needs to be fixed. Misses I can understand since YOU'RE the one taking that risk, but critical hits, "paralyzed can't move", flinching (okay if the move always makes the opponent flinch, like Fake Out) aren't decided by anyone.
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby Zamros » 17 Nov 2012, 12:41

If they are serious about making Smash Bros a competitive fighting game, there is one thing they need to sort out:
Balance. At the moment, Smash Bros Brawl is one of the most unbalanced fighting games I've ever played. They need to make all the characters unique to themselves whilst also making them balanced.
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby VinceLovesToast » 17 Nov 2012, 22:13

smash bros is not a game like tekken because most people who buy tekken are fans of tekken while most people with a wii u or 3ds who like any of the games on smash bros will buy it so no it is not all hardcore fans
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby 3try » 18 Nov 2012, 03:35

No, SSB isn't competitive and should never become competitive.
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Re: Smash Bros is a serious fighter, says Namco Bandai's Tek

Postby rrriki » 20 Nov 2012, 18:32

I dont think it should be hardcore fighter- this is the one fighting game where the characters are 'friendly' (yeah, i know that repeatedly smashing a princess in the face isn't friendly, but i mean the sort of colourful backgrounds and characters who SMILE kind of friendly). So yeah, i think the Super Smash Bros should be a fun, colourful, un...hardcore game ---- and King boo should be in it!
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