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Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

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Marc Zablotny explores the positives and negatives of achievements

With the launch date getting excitingly close, the Wii U is in the gaming media's spotlight across the globe. It's Nintendo's most powerful console to date, with enough oomph to rival its current competitors, the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360. It combines the touch screen gaming synonymous with the DS handhelds with the motion control capabilities of the Wii and mixes the result with High Definition goodness. Add it to your Christmas wish list if it isn't already there, because this is only a fraction of what the console has to offer.

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Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby K-tet » 20 Nov 2012, 14:07

Should Nintendo implement a universal achievement system for the Wii U? No. Both Nintendo and Third-Party games for Wii U could (and perhaps should) indeed have their own individual achievement system (if you want to call it that) within themselves, but only at the discretion of the developers should they want to add challenges to keep the achievement connoisseur content.

I can see an achievement system integrate well with Miiverse, but I think we all take the achievements system for granted and wonder why Nintendo are the only company doing things differently. I could be wrong, but I don't think the PC has a universal achievement system, just games that have their own individual achievement systems within them.

The moral of the story is 'observe the masses and do the opposite'.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby Wackiest » 20 Nov 2012, 15:02

Yes.

They might as well. If people want to collect them they can, if they don't they can ignore them.
As long as they remain unobtrusive then it's all gravy, and everyone will be happy.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby samus_killer » 20 Nov 2012, 15:13

Yes, they should.

I know Zabba lightly touched on it, but incorporating trophies/achievements into all their old classics would get me and a million others to re-download them on eshop.

I would be a sucker for it. I'd re-download all the classics like Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time and Super Metroid again, just to get a bunch of achievements.

It would also give me an incentive to go back and complete older gems like Super Mario RPG. Yes I'm that shallow, but so are so many others. Seriously, Nintendo like money, and people spend a lot of money on older games they've already played, just to play through it again in HD with a trophy support.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby King Slazo » 20 Nov 2012, 15:26

Yes, they should, because as stated above, it makes good business sense. When your big anti-achievement argument is that people might just play games for them... well, who cares. They still bought the game, maybe more of them because of said achievements, so if that's what they want from a game, so be it.

Plus every other major platform now has them. Microsoft, Sony and Steam all utilise achievements, there's no reason for Nintendo to lag behind in that regard.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby 5OUNDWAVE » 20 Nov 2012, 15:33

that's why i loved the wii so much trophy free gaming so no
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby AiDeNintendude » 20 Nov 2012, 15:36

Yes, the positives of them outweigh the negatives.
However, I think that Nintendo should limit their achievement system and force developers to come up with things that actually make the player feel like they've achieved something. In other words, I think that they should be few and far between and they should be smart and require some effort. Rather than gaining an achievement, for example, for finishing the first level or simply finishing the game on easy mode... Seeing "Well done, you just stomped on 10 goombas without touching the ground!" would make my day!
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby 5OUNDWAVE » 20 Nov 2012, 15:54

also if u play a bad game it's stuck on your profile for good (ps3) so if ur a trophy hunter then ur going to have to play that game or else format and wipe it clean and lose every thing
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby mooksam22 » 20 Nov 2012, 16:55

Achievements were one of Microsoft's masterstrokes this generation. I don't care that much about getting every last one in every game I play, but there can be satisfaction in obtaining them, especially when they are interesting or difficult. It's just a little something to show "hey, I did this", and sometimes it's nice. Like the article points out, an imaginative developer can put ones in that enhance the game by getting you to do things you normally wouldn't think of doing. The Orange Box has some of the best achievements in any game I've ever played and I actively went after them because they were fun.

Achievements can have a downside, however. The absolute worst are multiplayer achievements. In many games there are people that will only play to get these, which ruins the multiplayer experience. They're non-sporting and go against the spirit of the game.

Are Nintendo right or wrong? I think they probably should have some form of standardised achievement system, especially seeing how well it could be incorporated into the miiverse idea, but at the same time I can appreciate that they want to maintain a pure gaming experience. One downside is that multi platform games will have them on rival systems and I know that some gamers would rather buy those because they have achievements/trophies. Either way, it's not really going to affect my enjoyment of games like Metroid or Zelda that I want a Wii U for.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby lrwr14 » 20 Nov 2012, 17:03

I'm glad they haven't.
Achievements take away certain things from a game. For example, if an achievement asked you to find a certain location, which is optional , people would go looking for that place just for an achievement. However, by not telling the player about this location (through achievements) they'll be more surprised and interested when they discover it by themselves.
Achievements can motivate people to play on and discover new things but at the same time it feels like a check list of things to do, which in turn also feels as if they are directing me to play on just to get an achievement- I would rather discover them on my own.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby Donkey Kong Jr. » 20 Nov 2012, 17:17

yes, they absolutely should.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby LewiiG » 20 Nov 2012, 17:31

Without reading the article, I say yes it should have.
I like them because they give you a sense of how much of the game have you really completed. Achievements are usually the "extra" kind of things that you wouldn't have thought of doing. It extends the game a little to significantly sometimes. I just like the idea of all the games you have played coming together to form a number which can easily describe what kind of gamer you are. It's a real sense of "achievement". Unfourtunately for the Wii U that means I would be getting an Xbox 360 version over a Wii U port. Unless the Wii U port has some other defining feature (TTT2 for example!).
Don't get me wrong, I know achievements aren't the be all and end all. After all, Nintendo have never had this sort of system, yet they are still the best developers. I just prefer acheivements to no achievements. I also disagree with Miyamoto san's "dangling a carrot" view of achievements. After all, you don't have to go for the carrots, and what if going for the carrots are fun anyway? (They usually are).
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby spacemen13 » 20 Nov 2012, 17:39

Hell yeah!
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby goldbricks » 20 Nov 2012, 17:48

Great article. I love achievements and trophies. They add something extra to the game. Don't great me wrong, I can play games without them, but there's something so satisfying when it "pings" up on screen after doing something difficult/ amazing/ stupid. They should be universal across the Wii U and I think Nintendo should patch it in, on an new update sometime. However if it isn't there, its not going to put me off buying the console and playing all the games I can afford for it.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby herbie262 » 20 Nov 2012, 17:58

Yes, yes, yes!
Achievements would be great!
I would like everyone's Mii's to have an (optional) attached profile, with information about the games they play. These profiles could have the points on them!
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby Nath Ward » 20 Nov 2012, 18:08

Yes it definitely should have had an event system because it allows users to compete with friends and just generally compete in general with anyone!!
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby Zing06 » 20 Nov 2012, 19:10

5OUNDWAVE wrote:also if u play a bad game it's stuck on your profile for good (ps3) so if ur a trophy hunter then ur going to have to play that game or else format and wipe it clean and lose every thing
if you're a "trophy hunter" then you won't care what games you play, and even if you aren't having a bad game on you're profile with no or very few achievements on it will show that you don't like it.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby thenintendoer » 20 Nov 2012, 19:37

yes defintatley it gives my an incentive to play games right to the end rather than just comlpeting them and their compleetely optional so they dont get in the way (you dont even have to look at them if you dont want to)
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby The 3DS Formula » 20 Nov 2012, 20:00

Frankly, if Nintendo don't give us an acheivement system, I'll stick to 3DS and Wii and ignore Wii U. I've had enough of Nintendo attempting to go one up on Microsoft and Sony, and falling flat on their faces when they miss out on important features. If this happens, it's time to man up and start following suit. You could argue that Wii has sold more than PS3 and nearly twice the amount of Xbox 360s, but overall, you hear "Just going to play on Xbox/PS3." more than "I'm playing on Wii!". Take a wild guess why - Yep, Nintendo = Casual, oh so casual, and Microsoft/Sony = Hardcore and Casual mix. Nintendo: No more Nintendo Land, release something more hardcore than Metroid. What the heck, why not go back to the NES days of hardcoreness?

I rest my case.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby Tailsdreggman » 20 Nov 2012, 20:29

lrwr14 wrote:I'm glad they haven't.
Achievements take away certain things from a game. For example, if an achievement asked you to find a certain location, which is optional , people would go looking for that place just for an achievement. However, by not telling the player about this location (through achievements) they'll be more surprised and interested when they discover it by themselves.

I believe the Xbox360 system solves this problem by having 'secret' or 'locked' achievements - Not telling you HOW to get the achievement, just that there is one. Not all developers use it, but it's there. PS3..? Don't know. Haven't got one.

On the subject, I agree with previous statements that they should be included, but not shoe-horned, and not included in multiplayer. I'm a big TF2 player, but if a Heavy is spamming the minigun in your spawn room, you can bet your bottom dollar he's after the 'Heavy Industry' achievement. It, simply put, makes you a man down, and then you're probably going to suffer.
Achievements are fun. They encourage you to do things perhaps you normally wouldn't, to explore both playstyle and the game world itself. I'd be more impressed if they had a use other than gloating, however. (Looking at you, Microsoft.), Again, TF2 incrementally gives you unique weapons for completing the achievements.

And The3DSFormula, *cough*Zombiu*cough*. Yeah, not Nintendo, but Nintendo-exclusive is good enough. And, as a law student, I'd like to point out posting a rebuttal after saying 'I rest my case' will land you in contempt of court. The court of OMN, very harsh.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby declan.west » 20 Nov 2012, 20:41

I think an achievement system should be in the WiiU but can be turned on and off because some people might get carried away from the experience of the game and spend hours on end trying to accomplish 1 achievement and lose interest in the game after actually completing it. Although it could be used to gain mii customisation items like streetpass quest.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby Argenthor » 20 Nov 2012, 20:59

K-tet wrote:Should Nintendo implement a universal achievement system for the Wii U? No. Both Nintendo and Third-Party games for Wii U could (and perhaps should) indeed have their own individual achievement system (if you want to call it that) within themselves, but only at the discretion of the developers should they want to add challenges to keep the achievement connoisseur content.

I can see an achievement system integrate well with Miiverse, but I think we all take the achievements system for granted and wonder why Nintendo are the only company doing things differently. I could be wrong, but I don't think the PC has a universal achievement system, just games that have their own individual achievement systems within them.

The moral of the story is 'observe the masses and do the opposite'.

Steam has achievements for each game, but it is presented in a universal way through steam (just with no cumulative total) and pretty much all games that come out use it
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby barrybarryk » 20 Nov 2012, 21:01

Swinging third party developer support is hard enough for Nintendo, forcing devs to implement a system wide achievement system into every game won't help
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby Alaxtis » 20 Nov 2012, 21:41

Yes.
Simple as.
Luigi!!
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby Mmmyeah » 20 Nov 2012, 22:16

One of the reasons I love Nintendo so much is how they value great gaming experiences above all else. They don't concentrate on creating medial tasks with pointless rewards to make you play a game, they make fantastic games that you want to play because you enjoy them. I don't think Nintendo should include an achievements system, it will help Nintendo's special way of doing things remain.

Its things like this that make Nintendo different to the rest. They are purely about fun games, not passing the time.
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Re: Should Wii U have had an achievement system?

Postby KairiZero » 20 Nov 2012, 22:44

Yes and no.

Firstly, I think it gives a sense of progression in terms that you can aim towards certain goals, and some can involve mindless fun rather than ridiculously hard challenges. I think that multiplayer achievements are a sore point, as people will often play online just for those extra points/trophies, often exploiting cheap and unsportsmanlike tactics, which I think ruins the game for people who want to just play it and not worry about adding an extra centimetre to their e-manhood.

If they were to add a system.....I don't think you should be able to check the list for them, I think they should just appear when you do something cool - a surprise, so that rather than thinking "Oh I need 40 headshots with this gun on this chapter" and playing with that sole purpose, it should just come up that you've managed to complete this task, and adds it to a book/list of things you've accomplished, such as a really cool shortcut, or finding a hidden location - even far out wacky and pointless things. I don't think they should accumulate as "points" either.....I had a very lame comment made to me once over xbox live when I exclaimed I had more achievements for a change than my friends brother on a certain game, only to hear this guy; a family man in his mid thirties, in all his glory exclaim "Well you've get the gamerscore of a little girl" - This is the sort of behaviour scoring "points" against each other has caused, where a fully grown man can go full peetard and sound like the biggest loser you've ever met, over a few stupid points in a video game.

Reward accomplishments by all means, but try avoiding childish bragging rights, and you're onto a winner.
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