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The rights and wrongs of remakes

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Following the Wind Waker and Resident Evil Revelations announcements, Chris Rooke asks if remakes are a good idea

Has there ever been a time there have been so many remakes of classic games in the works? In 2011 we had Star Fox 64 3D and Ocarina Of Time 3D but in just 24 hours last week The Legend Of Zelda: Wind Waker and Resident Evil Revelations were announced for Wii U. Throw in Monster Hunter 3: Ultimate and you've got a trio of remakes coming to Wii U this year.

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The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby longjohndevine » 28 Jan 2013, 14:59

I simply can't believe that someone who gave up on Ocarina of Time is a blogger for ONM.
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The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Water Max » 28 Jan 2013, 15:03

I think the main points of the Sevii Islands were to include Generation II Pokémon which hadn't already been available in Ruby, Sapphire or Colosseum and to foreshadow the remakes of HeartGold and SoulSilver by making a possibility of Silver being Giovanni's son which was eventually confirmed in the Celebi event of HGSS.
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The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby SilentDark » 28 Jan 2013, 15:09

Personally I would disagree on the Okami front, while I could see the mindset behind it the execution was poor, having played both version I would say that the PS2 version actually controls better, in part because they have pointless waggle in the combat sections bout the paintbrush was also badly handled. It probably could have been done well but something went wrong somewhere. Personally I have grown to hate endless remakes and reboots. It's as if the only way some people know how to make a series profitable again is either to remake an earlier game with new visuals or whatever or jettison the continuity and start over (but ostensibly with an "edgier" protagonist)

I'm of the opinion that if you have to start resorting to such measures you should probably put the franchise to bed.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby King Slazo » 28 Jan 2013, 15:11

longjohndevine wrote:I simply can't believe that someone who gave up on Ocarina of Time is a blogger for ONM.


I can't believe how many fans that bad game has.

Water Max wrote:making a possibility of Silver being Giovanni's son which was eventually confirmed in the Celebi event of HGSS.


The manga canon covered that many years beforehand...

Anyway, I'm not that fussed by remakes. They're nice enough if you already own the system in question and want a nostalgia rush for cheap, but I would never buy a system specifically to play a game I already own again.
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The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Tazer_Silverscar » 28 Jan 2013, 15:11

Amen to this. Ruby & Sapphire would be oddly placed on the DS, given it's hard to see what more could be added. Sure, they could update the graphics and the controls, but that'd be about it. Mess with it too much, and it's no longer the same game. Admittedly Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver changed the game a lot, but the changes only added to the charm, rather than being intrusive.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Birdy1994 » 28 Jan 2013, 15:16

My problem with Wind Waker HD is that judged in isolation it seems worth £40 but when HD collections with 3 or 4 games on other systems cost £25 it's difficult to justify
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby OrangeRakoon » 28 Jan 2013, 15:48

King Slazo wrote:
longjohndevine wrote:I simply can't believe that someone who gave up on Ocarina of Time is a blogger for ONM.


I can't believe how many fans that bad game has.


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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby WiiDSguy » 28 Jan 2013, 16:02

longjohndevine wrote:I simply can't believe that someone who gave up on Ocarina of Time is a blogger for ONM.


And also goes onto say how they haven't completed for Wind Waker either.

In response to the Sevii Islands, yeah they weren't amazing and not a feature worth buying the game for, but they did make a lot of Johto Pokemon available to capture, which at the time were impossible to get. Emerald later added the leftover Johto Pokemon in a Safari Zone expansion and the Battle Frontier, so while not an amazing aspect of the game, the Sevii Islands had a purpose.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Mello » 28 Jan 2013, 16:15

Birdy1994 wrote:My problem with Wind Waker HD is that judged in isolation it seems worth £40 but when HD collections with 3 or 4 games on other systems cost £25 it's difficult to justify


Agreed, but at least more work will be done on this than most of those collections. Aren't those collections usually just the original games but upscaled (or whatever they do to make it HD...I don't understand that stuff :P)?

I'd be disappointed to have to pay full price though as like you say, improvements or no improvements I've still played this game before and on other consoles you often get the old games bundled together for a pretty low price. I'd like to give it another chance as I lost interest half way through (as I do with most Zelda games to be fair) but perhaps not at £40. I'd totally buy it for £30 though.

Just my two penneth but I don't think someone needs to have beaten all those Zelda games to blog for ONM. There is more to being interested in Nintendo than just that series, and it's possible to enjoy playing those games without getting all the way to the end.

With most Zelda games I usually start off absolutely loving them then gradually lose interest, then forcing myself to persevere, then "taking a break from the game", then not returning to the game. :D

I'd consider myself a Nintendo fan (though not a fanboy) and yet I've never beaten a Zelda game (though I've played most of them), never beaten a NES Mario game without cheats, not really into Smash Bros that much, or Metroid Prime series for that matter. :D
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby NintendoForLife » 28 Jan 2013, 17:22

I disagree with your comments on the Super Mario Advance series. Like many people on here I never had a Super Nintendo growing up so the Game Boy Advance was the perfect way to experience Super Mario Bros 2,3 World and Yoshi's Island. Along with Zelda A Link to the Past and the Donkey Kong Country. New games could have been nice but there are enough Mario games that more on the Advance really wouldn't be necessary.

Although I do have a NES and SNES now so my GBA is slightly redundant now. (Except for Golden Sun 1/2 and Mario and Luigi.)
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby PuAl » 28 Jan 2013, 17:38

Many of the games mentioned are not remakes, just enhanced ports. Rayman 2 - port, RE: Deadly Silence - port, Monster Hunter Ultimate and REvelations WiiU - ports. An article discussing the merits of remakes should really be underpinned by an understanding of what a remake is.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby sciqueen » 28 Jan 2013, 17:40

I'm generally against remakes. The time put into them could have been spent on a new game. This is why all the people who want Ruby Sapphire remakes should shut up.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby ThePokekid78 » 28 Jan 2013, 17:43

:O How dare you insult the Sevii Islands! They were great to explore and capture the Johto Pokemon in!
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby LBDNytetrayn » 28 Jan 2013, 17:48

Because Zelda's the only Nintendo game there is, right guys? ;P

I actually enjoyed Super Mario 64 DS, once I got used to the controls. Thankfully, the game had been tweaked to accommodate the new controls, so that's a plus-- a lot of developers wouldn't have bothered. Once you get the hang of that, the new stuff more than makes up for it.

That said, I'd love to see a remake of the remake on the Wii U... with a few more stars added, of course.

If we don't count the eReader content for Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario Advance was a great remake of Super Mario Bros. 2, making it feel more like a Mario game and mixing things up a bit. It's almost like a second quest (and then some) to the original.

I'm still hoping that Super Mario Sunshine gets the Wind Waker HD treatment as well. Maybe throw in some optional Wii Remote controls for pointer-based aiming, and a few other tweaks-- like making it a little less linear somehow.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Xenobladeperson » 28 Jan 2013, 17:56

Since a lot of people are making this mistake, I'm just going to point out that MH3U is more of an expansion pack than a remake, they've done this with all the titles in the series. And the WiiU version is just a port of the 3DS version, too.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby theycallmejack » 28 Jan 2013, 17:58

I loved the Sevii Islands! I didn't see them coming at all, up until that point FireRed and LeafGreen were a trip down Memory Lane and then BOOM! Brand new locations! It was awesome! And I think you're wrong about HeartGold and SoulSilver; they weren't remade because the developers wanted to add online features, they were made simply because fans wanted them. The games were sold on nostalgia and brought a lot of people back to the franchise after they'd left it. I doubt Nintendo expected them to have the appeal that they did, but it was no doubt a pleasant surprise!
Otherwise, I completely agree with everything else you've said here. Nice article. Can't believe you didn't complete either Ocarina of Time or The Wind Waker though...
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Dertdood » 28 Jan 2013, 18:30

Ocarina of Time is pretty dull and changed zelda for the worse (although there has been the odd good zelda since then such as majora's mask)
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby alexjones94 » 28 Jan 2013, 18:33

sound affects hadn't been improved.


The pedant in me, is forced to point out that this should be "effects". Sorry. :lol:
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby 3DSRulesO.K » 28 Jan 2013, 18:45

Dertdood wrote:Ocarina of Time is pretty dull and changed zelda for the worse (although there has been the odd good zelda since then such as majora's mask)

Majoras Mask has the exact same control scheme, the gameplay is almost exactly the same as Ocarina of Time!
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Dertdood » 28 Jan 2013, 18:53

3DSRulesO.K wrote:
Dertdood wrote:Ocarina of Time is pretty dull and changed zelda for the worse (although there has been the odd good zelda since then such as majora's mask)

Majoras Mask has the exact same control scheme, the gameplay is almost exactly the same as Ocarina of Time!

what no it isnt

it had shared models and controls and thats pretty much where the similarities end
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Chewie » 28 Jan 2013, 19:02

I thought they wanted to include the Sevii Isle's in the originals but they didn't have room on the cartridge? Fire Red and Leaf Green were great, the Sevii Isles offered something new to the younger players and something both new and different to the older players that had played Red and Blue to death.

Won't lie, I'm not a fan of these articles, I disagree with too much.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Toastie » 28 Jan 2013, 19:04

Dertdood wrote:what no it isnt

it had shared models and controls and thats pretty much where the similarities end

It shared a game engine, so as a result the gameplay is similar. While MM added new gameplay mechanics, the core gameplay didn't change much. The differences you are talking about seem to be more to do with story and atmosphere.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Caz14 » 28 Jan 2013, 19:18

Try playing Super Mario 64 DS on the 3DS, works a lot better with the circle pad than it does with the D-Pad or those weird stylus controls.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Kirby8 » 28 Jan 2013, 19:22

We've seen so many Pokemon fans asking for Pokemon Snap on Wii U or remakes of Ruby and Sapphire.


I think you are somewhat confused. Sure there are some people asking for Pokémon Snap on the Wii U, MANY fans are asking for Pokémon Snap 2 for Wii U or 3DS, aka a SEQUEL...not a remake.
But yes, there are a lot of people who want R/S/E remakes...I'm not one of those. I like the games, of course, and love the Pokémon series but think it will be overkill and unnecessary. I'd rather they focus all their efforts of Pokémon X and Y.
Plus, there were a multitude of reasons to remake R/B/Y and G/S/C, but very little reasons to remake R/S/E apart from fans wanting it. Looking at the graphics from Gen I to Gen III, you can see that Gen I and II were ones that needed updating as they are quite out of date. While Gen III graphics may not be as impressive as graphics now, they are decent enough to not need a remake if all they are going to give is updated graphics. While Gen I and Gen II remakes gave a lot more.

Remaking Gen I allowed the generation to gain a lot of features that have been made since the originals. Examples are natures, abilities, genders, hold items, new types (steel for example on Magnemite) and more. They also removed issues from the original (MissingNo anyone?) and added a joke for the truck. Also, you may note that the UK, as far as I am aware, never got Mew for the original Gen I games. The remake was the point when they first gave Europe Mew, allowing us to finish the original Pokédex, something that couldn't really be done in the original. They didn't count Mew to complete the Pokédex, but I'm sure many people did.
Sevii Islands added a lot more then you state. Firstly, this is the place where you can catch many national dex pokémon. Again, features from Gen II and Gen III were added in this way, such as breeding and Trainer tower (slightly different but same as battle tower). Also, Island 9? It was Deoxys home and they distributed the ticket to go there and catch him. They also added a new part of the team rocket story. And that story leads you to the ability to trade pokémon to Gen III, including Deoxys, allowing to complete the Hoenn Pokédex (as long as they bought Pokémon Channel and got Jirachi) and nearly complete the National Pokédex (bar Celebi of course). Which leads to the actual main reason (IMO) for the remakes of G/S/C.

Just like Mew, we never had a Celebi event in our country. Which meant we missed out on the Celebi time travelling story (although I'm sure all fans knew everything that happened in this story before playing HG/SS...I know I did). HG/SS marked the first time Celebi was distributed in our country. Of course it was distributed for D/P/Pt too, but this way we actually got to play the story behind the event. Also, they did a Jirachi event with the Pokéwalker route, allowing people who didn't buy Pokémon Channel (although I did) to get Jirachi.
Therefore, putting the remakes together with the non-remakes allowed people to FULLY complete the National Pokédex, which was out of reach before they were made.

Of course fan input had a big factor as they could have just as easily made all the other Pokémon available after completing the main game, and distributed the missing event pokémon on the normal games. But this way, people got to also fully complete the normal (non-national) pokédex on each game and we finally got to play the Celebi story.
So, IMO, both FR/LG and HG/SS were necessary. R/S/E remakes would be cool, but it's unnecessary. And I'm definitely not one of the people begging for it. I'd rather have Snap 2, Stadium 3 and Colosseum/XD sequel.
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Re: The rights and wrongs of remakes

Postby Buffalo_K » 28 Jan 2013, 19:33

King Slazo wrote:
longjohndevine wrote:I simply can't believe that someone who gave up on Ocarina of Time is a blogger for ONM.


I can't believe how many fans that bad game has.

Jeez, talk about attention seeking.
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